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Posted: Thursday October 14, 1999 07:52 PM

Francois Pienaar thinks professionalization benefits the sport. CNN/SI

When South Africa won the 1995 Rugby World Cup Championship, the captain of the that team was Francois Piennar. He chronicles those experiences and more in a new autobiographical book entitled "Rainbow Warrior." Piennar says he sees the center of rugby shifting northward and he adds South Africa is in danger of losing faith in the ideals that carried the day in its post-Apartheid era. From London, Piennar talked with CNN/SI's Riz Khan.

Riz Kahn: Francois, from a caller in New Zealand, [he] asks in your book you mentioned that you had taken performance enhancing drugs earlier on in your career and I know former black coach Laurie Mains has come out saying All Blacks had taken performance-enhancing drugs in the early 1980's. And I was just wondering if you were aware of that?

Francois Pienaar: Not on the All Black's side. In my book I mentioned that I used it and some of the players used it. And one thing I want to say is [at the time] it was not a banned substance. It was legal to takes those drugs that I mentioned in my book. There's a certain issue that you have to address. [For] over a year now, there's been a lot of talk about creatine being a performance enhancing stimulant that they are looking at banning. At this moment in time it is legal, and that's exactly what we did back in South Africa. I was 19-20 years old and you took it because people were taking it and it wasn't illegal. Would I take it now? No, it's banned. Would I risk it? Never, and I am one that believes in the professional era. The risks of taking any performance enhancing stimulants are so big that I wouldn't even consider it. Where I play at Saracens, we've got players from all over the world, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Western Samoa and we did some tests last year and I don't think guys would even consider it.

RK: Of course as the sport becomes more professional, it's a bigger issue as the money starts to grow. In your book, you wrote: " Money brings evil. I understand that. Money would bring greed, money would bring temptation, money would bring jealousy." Let me ask you, as the sport has become more professional and as people have started making a living out of it, how has it affected the way you take part in the sport?

FP: Oh, it affected it a great deal. In the World Cup in 1995 we were amateur. Preparation for the tournament started two months in advance. Now that the game is professional, there's a lot of money involved in it. You can't compare it with other big sports, it's only growing and its got a lot of teething problems, [but] players preparing for tournaments are much better equipped. Scientifically, they check their diets. Physically they are much more advanced. So all those issues come into place. And we talked about drugs, you can lose your contract and I don't think or I don't know any player who would risk that.

RK: a question from New Zealand via the internet asks "what do you see as the downside of professional rugby?"

FP: I just see an up. The downside is that nobody was prepared for professional rugby and it just jumped on everyone, all the administrators and the players. Since sense and sensibility needs to govern the game, I believe the game has got to be a global game to grow even more. The season has to be aligned with the North and Southern Hemispheres, and [I] truly believe that as a product in the Northern Hemisphere, especially after the World Cup, the game can grow even more.

RK: We have another question by email via the internet, again from New Zealand, "Will rugby become more like English soccer or American professional sports, with transfer fees and clubs rather than national unions dominating the game?"

FP: I hope it wouldn't be totally like English soccer. I think rugby is a totally different game. But I do understand when for instance, a New Zealand administrator and there's a young kid that you've invested a lot of money, effort, time and knowledge into and all of a sudden he becomes such a good player that the rest of the world will seek his services. There should be a compensation for that governing body that has invested all the resources into the players. You will see transfer fees. There will be some rulings. The Bosman ruling over here has already been discussed at rugby level. So I think there will be some crosses but hopefully, rugby will keep its uniqueness.

RK: Another question from our internet chat Francois asking, "how different do you find playing and living in England?"

FP: (laughs) I was shocked at my first day of training. I thought it was going to be amateur. Like I said, I never thought it was going to be archaic. the field was a mud pit and I played my first training session with two of the greats in world sport, Michael Lynagh, record holder in test matches, 911 points, and Phillipe Salle, 111 test matches. and I just thought, "what have I done?" Two and a half years down the line a lot of things have changed. Professionalism in the Northern Hemisphere has brought a better game. There's still a long way to go. there's still a lot of politics involved in the game. But rugby's future, if we govern it right is really bright.

RK: And it's an important thing to point out to people that don't realize it but, this north and south division that you talked about a little bit earlier, how the teams in the south, certainly according to your writing anyway, were a much stronger batch, but now with movement of players into the Northern Hemisphere perhaps that balance will change. What do you think?

FP: The gap has closed definitely. With professionalism it slows. In the Southern Hemisphere we were always semi-professional in our approach to rugby training-wise, scientific-wise. Where in the Northern Hemisphere, I realized it was amateur, an amateur game in the true sense of the game. Now that professionalism has come on board, the players like I said are much fitter, the coaches study the opposition. New tactics are employed for every game they play. The squads are getting stronger and bigger so the gap is definitely closing between the north and the south.

RK: in fact quoting you from you book, you wrote, "There is no doubt in my mind that the power is shifting to the north. The time scale of this shift is hard to predict but the greatest potential for the game's growth as a commercial product lies almost exclusively in Europe." To what extent do you worry Francois about the commercialism of the sport and perhaps that side, the commercialism might dictate where sort of, the true side of the game goes?

FP: Like I say, hopefully you would never lose those traditions in the game. But the game has turned professional and it has got to be professional in all aspects. Now to take rugby as a product and a product alone, where can it grow most? In the Southern Hemisphere in New Zealand, all three million people watch rugby and are rugby crazy. In Australia the other comparative sports will be Australian Rules, cricket and rugby league. In South Africa, I can see some of the black population will start following rugby but not in their masses because soccer is favorite their sport. In the Northern Hemisphere, it's been a non-starter. At Saracens where I play, we had an average viewership/spectators of less than 1,000 two years ago. We average 12,500 now. That's a growth of tremendous proportions in two years. and the game is not as structured as it could be and it's definitely not as structured an in the Southern Hemisphere. So the potential lies for me in the Northern Hemisphere, they've got more rugby players than anywhere in the world and they've got more clubs than any country in the world can boast.

RK: A caller from Zimbabwe wants to know where rugby lies for Zimbabwe. He says they seem to lose a lot of our good players to South Africa. Where do you think Zimbabwe will land in rugby circles?

FP: It's very difficult to answer. It is a problem with rugby turning professional and with South Africa being so close to Zimbabwe. A lot of players will go to South Africa. I don't know the answer. I don't know what the culture is there, in the schools as such. Inevitably the same thing will happen to the guys in Zimbabwe that happen to the guys in Western Samoa and Fiji. All their top players went to New Zealand. So you will find that happening. In South Africa, if a guy is not good enough to make the top tier team, you'll see him move abroad maybe and try his expertise somewhere else. One thing professionalism has brought on, is it's their occupation now and they [the players] are going to go where they can get a job.

RK: In another quote from you book referring to the integration of black players into the game you write: " it is my conviction that quotas can play a constructive role in junior rugby but that the central, fundamental excellence of the game relies on pure merit selection at the highest levels." I know that even in your book, you've gotten yourself into some hot water about comments on integration. Where do you see South Africa's game integrating if players can only integrate at a certain level?

FP: My view is that it starts at the grass-roots level, it's got to start in the schools and go on in the schools. It's got to be pushed in the club level, provincial level and then at the national level. The problem is that because we are so passionate about the game, if a player gets picked in a certain position in the national side and he's not picked on merit and he's playing in a test match against the All Blacks or England or whomever, and because he's not at that level, he'll be shown up. That just opens up the player to a lot of criticism from all colors and creeds. I'm just scared that, for instance, a black player gets selected at flyhalf, and there are better players to actually play for the side, and he goes and plays against England, and gets shown up badly, what will the white supporters in South Africa say? You know what I'm getting at? At that top level, it's got to be on merit and the fast tracking system has got to work.

RK: Finally Francois, you did suggest in one article recently that Wales might be the team for the cup this year. What is your prediction? Is it still Wales?

FP: No, I just said that Wales will be very difficult to beat. They're the outsiders, they're the darkhorse. They're playing at home. Opening game of the World Cup, I went to Wales when South Africa played them, only 27,500 people, not even half full. Wow. I don't want to be an Argentinean when they play Argentina in the opening game. That's going to be an incredible tournament.

 

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